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i have some concerns about our style of play

  • Why do people downvote tugged for actively trying to state and articulate his opinion in a reasonable way? I may not agree with his objections but they are always thought provoking

    CAVALCADE ●

  • There is a finite amount of practice time, and under Bennett we just won't ever spend enough of that practice time on the running game to be proficient at it. Not saying we won't ever run - I'm sure we WILL run when we get our chances - but I think it's safe to say that pushing tempo will never be one of our priorities. Everything, EVERYTHING is built on the pack-line defense and the blocker/mover offense. It gives us a high floor... but also a relatively low ceiling.

    I think Justin Anderson will be an interesting and important case study. He's an elite athlete, but he also seems to really embrace the defensive side of the ball. If he thrives under Tony Bennett, it could open the door for more of these top-notch recruits to play here and be successful. Putting a couple of Anderson-types on the floor with a team full of Bennett-style recruits could be the key to shattering the glass ceiling the system imposes.

    wahooze.blogspot.com / @wahooze

    Kendall

  • wtbryant2 said...

    dang ran out of downvotes today. still rambling about the running thing, blah blah blah. KT had his chance, he stunk. Thats why hes at Auburn instead of an actual good team.

    this is the quote of the year so far. ran out of downvotes.i wonder y. u see jamie some posters dont add anything other than downvoting. sad system.. i dont care if kt could run or not. he believe he was in the wrong system and others will think the same. thats the point

    tugard

  • tugard said...

    after hearing kt harrells father talk about bennetts style and kt was unhappy with the style i think this will be an ongoing problem. starting with justin anderson. most kids that are considered four star and above prospects prefer to play a uptempo pace. especially point guards and wing players. justin game is suited for a faster pace than what bennett play and i see justin game not reaching its full potential because of this syle bennett likes. now once again im not saying lets become the running rebels or unc, but we have to play a little faster on offense and defense. we are starting to get some good players and they can compete with unc and duke now. justin and evan or top players and i believe malcolm and tobey are also top players. so we cant use the we dont have the talent excuse anymore. lets pust the ball up court more and on defense let do some half court pressure and traps sometimes. lets try to get some turnovers which will give us the opportunity to get easy baskets. bennett has to be more flexible and play to his players strengths. darion and akil or not low postup players. they are very athletic and can get up and down the floor with the best of them. but ask them to do a low post move, i think the struggle. justin, teven and evan also can get up and down the floor. i dont want to see that another player is transfering because of our style of play and even the ones that did not say that, i believe most of our transfers is because of our style. remember james johnson was an athletic four and when he got to uva they made him a slow five. so i believe we can still play our tough defense and take quality shots but when the opportunity present itself, push the ball up the court and on defense with ahtletes like jontel, evan, justin, teven, akil and darion trap some and pressure some. just a little . one more thing. bennett has to play at least nine guys. as we start to get these top players, they not going to like not playing. that just the way it is. i see jontel, malcolm, darion, akil and joe starting next year. which means all our freshman will be on the bench. i dont see two of the four guys on the bench being happy and i forgot jesperson. all five players were top 150 players with three of them being top 75. i really think bennett need to evaluate his strategy some. i love him as a coach but he is young and twinkling some things should not be a problem. i mean damn we lost jeff jones, tristian spurlock, kt harrell, james johnson and billy baron. that a nice starting five.

    I feel that most of our transfers were because the players were not properly vetted. The only player in that first class that Tony recruited for more than one year was Harris and I think everyone will agree he is a keeper. Harrell came around late in his Sr year Johnson didn't even play as a Jr. Baron asked Bennett to take him and Regan was a high GPA project.

    If this continues in the next classes than I will ne concerned. As Bennett has got his feet firmly on the ground recruiting players that like and fit his system of play are comitting.

    As far as Justin Anderson is concerned. He does not play like his highligjt reel would suggest. He is patient and let's the game come to him. Also, I have never seen a high school kid work harder on defense. Anderson will get the most out of his game at UVA because he already plays the game the right way.

    Give Bennett a mulligan for that first class.

    6WithClass ●

  • KT left because Brogdon is a better player and would have taken all of his minutes. If we played at Carolina's pace Brogdon still would have played over KT. If we played in Georgia at KT's high school Brogdon still would have played over him. Brogdon is a better player than KT, he saw that and wanted PT so he quit.

    Bennett's style is the only chance that we have to compete with the UNC/Duke's of the world. They get burger boys every year while we're lucky to get 1 every 7 years. Bennett is one of the best coaches in the country and I guarentee you he will get out and run (when the chances present) once we have more athletic guys like Anderson here. Heck we did it at times this year. Once Brogdon went down the guards had a license to push the ball when they rebounded it. It's never going to be a fast system so everyone just needs to get used to that.

    SokurHoo83 ●

  • CAVALCADE said...

    Why do people downvote tugged for actively trying to state and articulate his opinion in a reasonable way? I may not agree with his objections but they are always thought provoking

    thank u and its ok my fam. i know people think i am concerned about the downvotes and star rating but in reaity i just try to show how flawed the system is to our administrator and value members. i saw a poster who had a month membership and 3 post with five stars. i just laughed. not to too my own horn but i add to this board good or bad just as much than any other member but have three stars and i want it to stay at three. i enjoy this site and appreciate the dialogue when its not vanderlized by private attacks and downvotes. but best believe tugard is ok. he will continue to shoot until the clock hit zero.

    tugard

  • tugard said...

    after hearing kt harrells father talk about bennetts style and kt was unhappy with the style i think this will be an ongoing problem. starting with justin anderson. most kids that are considered four star and above prospects prefer to play a uptempo pace. especially point guards and wing players. justin game is suited for a faster pace than what bennett play and i see justin game not reaching its full potential because of this syle bennett likes. now once again im not saying lets become the running rebels or unc, but we have to play a little faster on offense and defense. we are starting to get some good players and they can compete with unc and duke now. justin and evan or top players and i believe malcolm and tobey are also top players. so we cant use the we dont have the talent excuse anymore. lets pust the ball up court more and on defense let do some half court pressure and traps sometimes. lets try to get some turnovers which will give us the opportunity to get easy baskets. bennett has to be more flexible and play to his players strengths. darion and akil or not low postup players. they are very athletic and can get up and down the floor with the best of them. but ask them to do a low post move, i think the struggle. justin, teven and evan also can get up and down the floor. i dont want to see that another player is transfering because of our style of play and even the ones that did not say that, i believe most of our transfers is because of our style. remember james johnson was an athletic four and when he got to uva they made him a slow five. so i believe we can still play our tough defense and take quality shots but when the opportunity present itself, push the ball up the court and on defense with ahtletes like jontel, evan, justin, teven, akil and darion trap some and pressure some. just a little . one more thing. bennett has to play at least nine guys. as we start to get these top players, they not going to like not playing. that just the way it is. i see jontel, malcolm, darion, akil and joe starting next year. which means all our freshman will be on the bench. i dont see two of the four guys on the bench being happy and i forgot jesperson. all five players were top 150 players with three of them being top 75. i really think bennett need to evaluate his strategy some. i love him as a coach but he is young and twinkling some things should not be a problem. i mean damn we lost jeff jones, tristian spurlock, kt harrell, james johnson and billy baron. that a nice starting five.

    I don't believe Harrell's quotes at all. Look, kids know what they are getting into when they get here. The can watch any game Bennett has coached and understand his style. Play defense, value the ball, score easy baskets. I think the last one is what you are missing. Bennett has said over and over again, even recently, that he doesn't mind pushing the ball. Jontel Evans even made comments about it in his last few games that Bennett encourages him to push the ball when the opportunity is there. What we don't do is run every single time, and we never will. Teams that do that all the time have superior athletes or they play bad defense (see Gillen's teams). It's discouraging to see our own fans not recognize exactly what our style of play is. Bennett does not purposefully slow the game down. What he wants is for opposing teams to work hard to have to score, and he wants us to get easy open shots. If Justin Anderson, can grab a rebound and blow by everyone else for a layup, Bennett will let him do that every single time. Singletary would have flourished in this offense, because he was a decent rebounder and was lightning quick up the floor. You better believe Bennett would have let him run with it, just like he encourages Brogdon too.

    So why didn't Harrell like this style? Probably because he wasn't a good enough ball handler to grab a rebound and go like Brogdon who seems to fly up and down the court when he rebounds the ball. So is it the system? I don't think so, it's the player. You know what, Joe Harris plays in the same system and he does just fine. Why? Because he plays within the system, is a good shooter, and is very good without the ball. He knows how to get open. If you can't get yourself open and make shots in Bennett's system I don't know what to say for you.

    As far as top players, Bennett's system is what it is. What it did was allowed us to get to the NCAA tournament with one great player, 1 good player, and a host of decent players. If kids what glitter and flash, that's not us, and it never will be. We can't outshine UNC and Duke and places like that. What we need to be, is the best at the system we offer, built on unwavering principles. What this year showed is that the system is bigger than the players. Don't get me wrong we need players, but we need players that buy in and fit into the system. Without Bennett's system we would not have finished 4th with the players we had this year and the injuries. I have little doubt in my mind that is true. Sure we had a great player in Mike Scott, but without a commitment to defense and a commitment to solid offense, it would have been easy to take Scott out of the game. He could have scored 30 and we still could have lost half of our games. I am not saying Bennett won't make little changes here and there (and he did in-game like post traps), but I think we as fans need to at least fundamentally understand what Bennett tries to do, and not perpetuate the myth that this team will not get out and run.

    Grimlock

  • 6WithClass said...

    I feel that most of our transfers were because the players were not properly vetted. The only player in that first class that Tony recruited for more than one year was Harris and I think everyone will agree he is a keeper. Harrell came around late in his Sr year Johnson didn't even play as a Jr. Baron asked Bennett to take him and Regan was a high GPA project.

    If this continues in the next classes than I will ne concerned. As Bennett has got his feet firmly on the ground recruiting players that like and fit his system of play are comitting.

    As far as Justin Anderson is concerned. He does not play like his highligjt reel would suggest. He is patient and let's the game come to him. Also, I have never seen a high school kid work harder on defense. Anderson will get the most out of his game at UVA because he already plays the game the right way.

    Give Bennett a mulligan for that first class.

    Great points, great post.

    wahooze.blogspot.com / @wahooze

    Kendall

  • TB is the perfect guy for UVA, he coaches a style that will be successful because he will be attracting the right players for his system and for UVA. He's going to take a little time to get the right players to fit, but when there is full buy in from the players from year to year, you all will be consistently in the top 4 of the ACC. He took half a team this year and got into the NCAA's.

    This post was edited by HNB on 3/29/2012 at 12:05 PM

    HNB ●

  • Kendall said...

    Can't have it both ways, fellas. You either want a team that will press and trap and run and play fast, or you want Tony Bennett as your coach. Choose one or the other, because they are mutually exclusive.

    Bennettball gives the Hoos a chance to compete with the UNCs and Dukes of the world with lesser talent via a strict, disciplined, cohesive system. That strict, disciplined, cohesive system involves very little running and playing fast, and absolutely no pressing and trapping. It's all about working for good shots and working to prevent good shots on defense. It's all about work. Period.

    tugard, I understand and appreciate your point about losing transfers due to the system. But the system is unbending. It has to be rigid and unbending in order to have a chance for success. We will just have to live with recruits who want to play that style, and we'll have to live with players transferring away because they can't hack it.

    My hope is that the more Bennettball takes root at UVA, the more our recruits will understand exactly what they're getting into (hard work, and lots of it) when they commit to play basketball here. And also, the more the support system provided by the upperclassmen and on-team leadership will solidify and help the young recruits feel more comfortable with the system.

    Building a program around a rigid scheme like this is a long, slow, painful process. But once it's done, we will be able to enjoy a period of sustained success never before experienced at UVA. It will be a success that mostly transcends the quality of players recruited to play within the system. Look at Wisconsin --- in the tournament every single season, usually winning a game or two, threatening to make a darkhorse Final Four run. That's where we'll be once this thing becomes fully ingrained. Enough good players will want to play on that kind of team and experience that kind of consistent success more than they'll want to run and gun and score points and pile up stats.

    This is spot on. We are never, at least in our lifetimes, going to be able to get better athletes than Duke or UNC, and putting the pressure on the coaches to go find a few "diamonds in the rough" every year to compete with them is going to eventually be the downfall of every coach we will have with that approach. Yes we have a top-notch arena in JPJ and Boo Williams runs a great AAU program in our backyard, but we still lack the name recognition and prestige as a program to walk into a 5 star kids house with a scholarship and bring him in the next day, and quite frankly it will take DECADES for us to achieve that if we ever do. If you want flashy players and an up-tempo style, then you also want to be a mediocre ACC team that consistently gets boat-raced by Duke and UNC every season. The only way for us to have sustained success in the ACC and nationally is to play a kind of system that allows you to win with lesser talent executing a smarter style of basketball, and that is what we have now. If KT had a problem with our style he shouldn't have come here in the first place, as we get more of this kind of reputation kids will better know what they are signing up for and the transfers will decrease, we're just starting to establish that identity now though so think of the transfers as growing pains rather than warning signs.

    signature image signature image

    @WahoozeMike

    MikeV

  • CAVALCADE said...

    Why do people downvote tugged for actively trying to state and articulate his opinion in a reasonable way? I may not agree with his objections but they are always thought provoking

    Clearly, people are jealous. When I read Tug's posts, more often than not I say to myself "why didn't I think of that?" Insightful, thought provoking, and concise. Those are just a few words that come to mind when describing his posts. It is a traveshamockery that he is a 3 star poster. The lowest rating a poster can have on this board. The LOWEST! It takes Tug 5 or 10 minutes to come up with a semi-clear thought and then some of you heartless sons of guns downvote him in a second after reading his posts. Who cares if he is mostly wrong more than 50% of the time, is this not AMERICA?

    In closing, I'd like to say directly to Tug, keep your head up. You may be a 3 star poster(God knows you would be lower if them system allowed it) but you are a 5 star in the hearts of many of us on here. Tug, keep pressing enter, and these people that act like they are RKelly and you are his romantic encounter can go to HADES. God bless.

    Mr E Recruit18176 ●

  • Look at what this team has done in the last two years under Bennett. Last year we lost Mike, Sherill for half a season, and Sammy for one third of a season. We had a ton of freshmen. We won 7 games in the ACC. This year our team looked like a top 15 squad until decimated by injury. By the end of the season, we looked like a M.A.S.H. unit. We still competed against FlSt and NC State with basically our starting 5. Incredible coaching by Bennett and an "Never Say Die" attitude from the players. Look at how players like Scott, Mu, Bub, Harris, Sherrill, and Mayonise (I can't remember how to spell his name-sorry) have excelled under Bennett. The sky is the limit for our program. Once Bennett has his players in place and we have experience and depth, we are going to be an elite basketball school.

    signature image

    blacksburghoo

  • tugard said...

    after hearing kt harrells father talk about bennetts style and kt was unhappy with the style i think this will be an ongoing problem. starting with justin anderson. most kids that are considered four star and above prospects prefer to play a uptempo pace. especially point guards and wing players. justin game is suited for a faster pace than what bennett play and i see justin game not reaching its full potential because of this syle bennett likes. now once again im not saying lets become the running rebels or unc, but we have to play a little faster on offense and defense. we are starting to get some good players and they can compete with unc and duke now. justin and evan or top players and i believe malcolm and tobey are also top players. so we cant use the we dont have the talent excuse anymore. lets pust the ball up court more and on defense let do some half court pressure and traps sometimes. lets try to get some turnovers which will give us the opportunity to get easy baskets. bennett has to be more flexible and play to his players strengths. darion and akil or not low postup players. they are very athletic and can get up and down the floor with the best of them. but ask them to do a low post move, i think the struggle. justin, teven and evan also can get up and down the floor. i dont want to see that another player is transfering because of our style of play and even the ones that did not say that, i believe most of our transfers is because of our style. remember james johnson was an athletic four and when he got to uva they made him a slow five. so i believe we can still play our tough defense and take quality shots but when the opportunity present itself, push the ball up the court and on defense with ahtletes like jontel, evan, justin, teven, akil and darion trap some and pressure some. just a little . one more thing. bennett has to play at least nine guys. as we start to get these top players, they not going to like not playing. that just the way it is. i see jontel, malcolm, darion, akil and joe starting next year. which means all our freshman will be on the bench. i dont see two of the four guys on the bench being happy and i forgot jesperson. all five players were top 150 players with three of them being top 75. i really think bennett need to evaluate his strategy some. i love him as a coach but he is young and twinkling some things should not be a problem. i mean damn we lost jeff jones, tristian spurlock, kt harrell, james johnson and billy baron. that a nice starting five.

    it is extremely frustrating to read posts of this sort.

    the primary reason KT left was shrinking minutes. malcolm came in and took his time. there is a direct correlation there. same for most of the others -- they saw better players ahead of them.

    who are you to suggest bennett should change his formula or evaluate his strategy? it works! it has worked everywhere!!

    time will show that the starting five you think is "nice" is actually very mediocre.

    JayZ10975 ●

  • tugard said...

    thank u and its ok my fam. i know people think i am concerned about the downvotes and star rating but in reaity i just try to show how flawed the system is to our administrator and value members. i saw a poster who had a month membership and 3 post with five stars. i just laughed. not to too my own horn but i add to this board good or bad just as much than any other member but have three stars and i want it to stay at three. i enjoy this site and appreciate the dialogue when its not vanderlized by private attacks and downvotes. but best believe tugard is ok. he will continue to shoot until the clock hit zero.

    Tugard it's a meaningless rating on an internet message board.

    Jamie I'd like to be a 1-star poster if possible. Would be baller.

    hoosballin296

  • Isn't that why we have the ability to downvote? We upvote when we really like something or agree with what someone's said. We downvote when we disagree.

    I'd rather not see every single poster recycle the same (correct) response about Bennett's system and the KT/Brogdon dynamic in an individual post. Rather than clutter up the threads, we use the concise and tidy method of a downvote to show our disagreement. Doesn't mean I think you're an idiot or that you don't raise any interesting questions, I just happen to think you're wrong in this case and you're reading too much into a jilted father's quotes. Especially when Tony's only been here three years - now that we're getting more national attention recruits will fully understand what our system is and what it demands out of its players. Those who would rather run and gun will go elsewhere, those who don't mind a slower pace and playing defense will consider us. That simple.

    I enjoy disagreeing with you Tug - what drives me nuts is the incessant "downvote debate" that follows up every one of your posts. It does not matter.

    puckhoo06

  • Three downvotes will not last long when tugard posts. We need a special fund we can access or else be allowed to run a deficit like the US.

    claybrdr

  • claybrdr said...

    Three downvotes will not last long when tugard posts. We need a special fund we can access or else be allowed to run a deficit like the US.

    What a good contribution to the conversation at hand. How insightful, I just love how you talked about Tony Bennett and UVA sports in general while tying it into the real issue, down votes.

    Ryan091 ●

  • MikeV said...

    This is spot on. We are never, at least in our lifetimes, going to be able to get better athletes than Duke or UNC, and putting the pressure on the coaches to go find a few "diamonds in the rough" every year to compete with them is going to eventually be the downfall of every coach we will have with that approach. Yes we have a top-notch arena in JPJ and Boo Williams runs a great AAU program in our backyard, but we still lack the name recognition and prestige as a program to walk into a 5 star kids house with a scholarship and bring him in the next day, and quite frankly it will take DECADES for us to achieve that if we ever do. If you want flashy players and an up-tempo style, then you also want to be a mediocre ACC team that consistently gets boat-raced by Duke and UNC every season. The only way for us to have sustained success in the ACC and nationally is to play a kind of system that allows you to win with lesser talent executing a smarter style of basketball, and that is what we have now. If KT had a problem with our style he shouldn't have come here in the first place, as we get more of this kind of reputation kids will better know what they are signing up for and the transfers will decrease, we're just starting to establish that identity now though so think of the transfers as growing pains rather than warning signs.

    MikeV you are basically correct. Where I disagree is that if Tony had more players who were competent in the open court he would increase tempo, allowing for more fast breaks and pushing the ball a little more often. If Sean Singletary, Mustapha,Sylvan and Roger Mason were on this team do you think Tony would ask them not to bring it if the opening was there? The issue is whether any of these type guys can be recruited. I'm positive that Tony will communicate his willingness to open it up a little if these kind of guys are interested. He has personally told me that Malcolm has a green light to go to the hoop as frequently as is possible.

    mogreen2333 ●

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    Six2Hoo

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    mogreen2333 ●

  • Mr. E. Recruit said...

    Clearly, people are jealous. When I read Tug's posts, more often than not I say to myself "why didn't I think of that?" Insightful, thought provoking, and concise. Those are just a few words that come to mind when describing his posts. It is a traveshamockery that he is a 3 star poster. The lowest rating a poster can have on this board. The LOWEST! It takes Tug 5 or 10 minutes to come up with a semi-clear thought and then some of you heartless sons of guns downvote him in a second after reading his posts. Who cares if he is mostly wrong more than 50% of the time, is this not AMERICA?

    In closing, I'd like to say directly to Tug, keep your head up. You may be a 3 star poster(God knows you would be lower if them system allowed it) but you are a 5 star in the hearts of many of us on here. Tug, keep pressing enter, and these people that act like they are RKelly and you are his romantic encounter can go to HADES. God bless.

    Jealous? To me Tug posts the same shit about Bennett's style of play but phrases differently. The downvotes and up votes are there for a reason and that is to reward or criticize a post. I simply downvoted the post because I just dont agree with what he is saying here. I have nothing against him personally.

    This post was edited by 1wackyhoo on 3/29/2012 at 3:01 PM

    1wackyhoo

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    Grimlock

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    tripper1 ●

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